On Friday 02 August 2002 7:04 pm, you wrote:
> On 2 Aug 2002 at 12:02, Mark Collins wrote:
> > People like Mr Dees are acting as if the only way to solve the problems
> > in the Middle East is with military force. This is wrong, and is more
> > likely to create more problems down the line.
> Allowing only one side to kill people means less problems, ayy? Maybe
> for the one side doing the killing (in the name of their god). Maybe for
> those on this list who would prefer to see the side they are killing be
> completely killed off.
It;'s a vicious circle. Somebody has to break the cycle. It takes one side to
say "enough is enough. We will not tolerate any more killing, by either
side". There will be resistance at first, but this will eventually pass.
> > First of all, what is the problem?
> > Contrary to what some people would have us belive, it isn't Islam,
> > it's abuse of the religion by some very charismaric people, such as
> > Bin Laden and Hussein, through the use of extensive propganda which
> > makes out the West uses military force to achieve its goals.
> That is a time-honored solution for the religion; twenty-two out of
> twenty-four global conflicts presently happening on the globe have, as
> their participants on one or both sides, Islamic regimes. And guess
> why? Because the religion is a fascist, world-conquering one, began by
> a murderous mercernary.
You really do believe what you see in the media, don't you? You probably
think "jihad" means "conquer", don't you? Guess again. A jihad is (by
definition) a defensive war, intended to prevent foreign influences
destroying the establishment of Islam.
As long as there are nations attacking Islam from the outside, the jihad will
continue. Simple as that.
In any faith structure, there are those who believe they alone are right, and
there isn't enough space on the planet for anyone else. They will use any
means to enforce their views. Damning the majoirty because of the actions of
the minority is, well, idiotic.
> > A much mroe reasonible plan of attack would be to destroy the
> > propaganda, by sending teachers, doctors and medicine into the middle
> > east. The costs of a single cruise missile can pay a teachers salary
> > for a year, and I'm sure there are some who would even volumteer to go
> > for free. The fuel for a single air-raid would cover expenses for an
> > army of doctors.
> We have many such people and programs in place, or haven't you
> heard? The occasional one is kidnapped or killed for the greater glory
> of Allah and to prevent a nasty thing like knowledge form corrupting
> faith, but still they go to teach, provide medical care, and distribute
And in the US the occasional abortion clinic is bombed by a far-right
Chrisitan. Are you under the delsional that extremism is limited to Islam?
> > If the US and its allies acted as humintarians instead of warmongers,
> > the warmongers in the middle east would have nothing to base their
> > propaganda on.
> > FIght the propganda, not the people.
> We are, by any measure, (money, food, medical materials, books,
> volunteers) far and away the world's greatest humanitarian nation.
> Obviously part of the propaganda that needs to be fought resides inside
These volunteers aren't there to help the people though, they are there to
push ideas. Americans are good for one thing, and that's pushing America. The
people in the middle east aren't that big on US ideals, so maybe you should
have people out there who aren't there because they want to spread the word
of the Chrisitan God, or push Democracy on the people..
And before you start on a rant about how everyone in the world wants
democracy, just before WW2 a small nation that was given to France for a
fixed term under the treaty of Versaille held an internationally monitered
election to see what they wanted, independance, french rule, or german rule.
90% of the population voted for Germany, even though it was a fascist
dictatorship at the time, and this was well known at the time of the
-- === Mark 'Nurgle' Collins http://www.thisisnurgle.org.uk Stupid IRC quote of the <variable time period>: <phoenix> insider, you'll have to excuse nurgle, he's the epitamy of evil
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