Re: virus: Human Papilloma Virus makes cervical cancer risk soar

From: Mermaid . (
Date: Tue Jul 30 2002 - 08:05:39 MDT

[Hermit] Mermaid, reliable as ever I see...

[Mermaid] Thank you..:)

[Hermit] Perhaps it is permitted. After all, are murderers better qualified
to discuss penology than people who have not yet been convicted of a capital

[Mermaid]Of course, it is permitted. Did I mention otherwise?

[Hermit] Please never hide it. Indeed, why not post photos? It is no doubt,
one of your charming attributes. No need to hide it under a bushel.

[Mermaid]Not unless you pay for it. In cash.

[Hermit] How is cancer "prevented"?

[Mermaid]Sorry. Bad construction.

[Hermit] Hmmm, the pap smear need not be abnormal. There are (expensive) DNA
tests which can detect the virus in the absence of cell abnormalities.

[Mermaid]And how many have access to this? How many insurance companies foot
this bill?

[Hermit] I'd say, "which may be indicative of an increased risk of cancer"
rather than, "leading to cervical cancer".

[Mermaid]Yes, so would I. As I did mention it in the latter parts of my

[Hermit] My guess is that most people will never be "ready for sex" by this
standard. Being practical, most US kids, are never formally exposed to the
idea of "safe sex", as all that most schools here are teaching is
abstinance. To show how effective this line is, most US kids are engaging in
sex by 16 - and 25% of them have STDs before age 19 while 22% of girls will
have had children by the same age. Safe sex means few partners, disease
testing and condoms every time.

[Mermaid]I dont think kids should be having sex when they should be studying
in school or expanding their minds. There is a time and place for
everything. The formative years are the basis of a good foundation.
Sexuality should be explored. Allowing children to engage in damaging sexual
activity even before they are sexually mature or physically developed is a
stupid idea, at best. The incidence of STDs in children is more proof that
they should be educated and not let loose out in the world. Especially in a
world of predators who regularly abuse these kids sexually in an elitist or
red neckish manner. It is a travesty that children have STDs. It is
unacceptable. This will only result in really bad seeds if these diseases
can be transmitted to their next generation. I am amused when I see
television commericals which sell three day treatments instead of five day
treatments for herpes. There is your next generation.

[Mermaid] 6.Condoms might provide *some* protection against the spread of
HPV, but it only delays infection. The virus can also be spread through oral
sex as it can turn up outside the condom...scrotum..anus..etc

[Hermit] Despite US propaganda to the contrary, condoms do not "delay"
infection. While it is true that virii can migrate through condoms, they
greatly reduce the total number of virii to which you can be exposed. This
in turn allows a healthy immune system to deal with the influx.

[Mermaid]"While it is true that virii(mermaid notes:btw, its
viruses..apparently virii is bad english. I learnt this recently)can migrate
through condoms, they greatly reduce the total number of virii to which you
can be exposed" is different from saying that infection is

[Hermit] In regards to a vasectomy, my advice is think carefully, do your
research, and then don't do it.It has been implicated with numerous
andrological problems including certain cancers refer e.g. If vasectomy were
a medication, it would have been withdrawn years ago. As for tubal
litigation, the possibility of complications and concerns about nosocomial
infections, particularly in the light of the appearance of globally
antibiotic resistant Staphylococcus aureus should cause you to think very
carefully about this option. I don't recommend it. If a person has had as
many children as desired, the loop is one relatively safe option (infection
risk so don't use it unless you are finished having kids), and the pill,
when started late in life, appears to reduce some kinds of cancer (breast in
particular)and bears far lower risks than when taken earlier in life.

[Mermaid]Vasectomy is a better option than ligation when it comes to
sterilisation. Of course, there are other methods of birth control, but I
wasnt referring to those.

[Hermit] I class this as really insane advice. Most medical advisors will
recommend that all women begin having regular Pap smears once they become
sexually active or reach 18 years of age. After three normal tests, once a
year, Pap smears are then recommended every two years unless additional risk
factors are involved. Women should continue to have regular Pap smears for
life...even after they have had their children, reached menopause or are no
longer sexually active.

[Mermaid]Please tell me where you read this? That women should have Pap
Smears for life? In light of your 'medical advice' that Pap Smears is
recommended every three months after HPV is detected, I suggest you check it
out once more before responding.

[Hermit] When a significant risk factor exists - and HPV is a significant
risk factor, then more frequent tests are recommended. For patients showing
antibodies to HPV, three monthly tests are the current guidelne from the Uni
Iowa Hospital (recognized as a leading oncology center) Department of
Oncology. Six monthly tests would result in a high probability that 50% of
cancers would only be detected in late stage one, early stage two, with an
approximately 40% reduction in 5 year survival prospects. (From a
presentation at a conference I attended about 2 months ago)

[Mermaid]I would like to read this from someplace reliable, please?

[Hermit] See my reply to [Mermaid 10]. Regular testing (once every two years
minimum, once a year optimum, once every six months for medium risk patients
(smokers, family history, long term pill usage, early sex), once every three
months for patients with significant risk factors (HPV, HIV).

[Mermaid]You are repeating what I have already stated.

[Hermit] Today, abnormal results can be checked via DNA analysis. While this
is expensive ($2500 - $3500), for medium- and high-risk patients, the
benefit of very early detection and elimination of any cancer is more than
repaid in reduced treatment costs and a vastly better prognosis should
cancer develop.


[Hermit] Bull shit. The highest risk factor for death from cervical cancer
is not having regular pap smears.

[Mermaid]Virgins dont have to worry about Pap Smears. If one has always had
normal Pap Smears and havent been sexually active, they probably dont have
to worry about visiting speculum either.

[Hermit] Perhaps in some primitive societies (which I don't know of).
In any modern medical setting, a cotton swab, like an oversized q-tip,
supplied in a sterile container, is used to wipe the cervix, replaced in the
container and sent for processing. Most labs today use computerized
microscopes, which will examine all the cells present and automatically flag
possible anomolies for closer examination. Neural networks are now being
used to perform analysis, and these are proving far more reliable

[Mermaid]cotton swaps, yes. The 'computerised microscopes' bit is extra
information. I havent said anything about how the actual tests are
conducted. Thanks for the info anyways. I am sure its useful at some level.

[Hermit] LOL. According to everyone I have known who has experienced them
and discussed it with me, "mild discomfort" is the worst that can be

[Mermaid]We'll talk after you had a pleasant visit to the proctologist and
feel chirpy and extra bouncy, ok?...:)

<snipped...doesnt require my response>

[Hermit] Much as I am with the Mermaid on the value of the foreskin (after
all, it contains over 50% of all the nervous tissue in the infant penis, her
information is outdated). Refer "Circumcision cuts cervical cancer
rates", news service, 2002-04-11
( (I still don't
recommend it. I strongly recommend teaching safe sexual habits instead
(which means, if followed, that the risk is not increased in the slightest.)

[Mermaid]From the article:

"A team led by Xavier Castellsagué at Llobregat Hospital in Barcelona
reviewed seven studies from five countries on a total of almost 2000

"Castellsagué's team used data from Brazil, Spain, Thailand, Colombia and
the Philippines."

[Mermaid]If a study was conducted in a country like the United States where
they are as close to fanatical a secular society can get about circumcision,
the results would be interesting.

[Mermaid]Also how many women in these countries have regular Pap Smears? How
many women in the US have cervical cancer despite the fact that the majority
of american babies are being circumcised.

[Mermaid]I would also like to know about the rate of circumcision in these
countries..especially Thailand..Philippines?


"Women with "low-risk" partners - men who had previously had fewer than six
sexual partners - had a similar risk of cervical cancer, whether their
partner was circumcised or not. But women with "high-risk" partners were 58
per cent less likely to develop cervical cancer if their partner had been

"The team also found that Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) was present in almost
20 per cent of uncircumcised men, but in fewer than six per cent of
circumcised men. HPV is sexually transmitted and contributes to the
development of nearly all cases of cervical cancer. Circumcision is
important because the inner lining of the foreskin is thought to be
especially vulnerable to infection."

[Mermaid]If this is the only study you can come up with in defense of the
link between cervical cancer and circumcision, I would like to see more
studies and results.

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